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Author Topic: The Forgotten Hoa Chinese of Vietnam: Ngai and San Diu  (Read 464 times)

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Offline Qu Đơn

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The Forgotten Hoa Chinese of Vietnam: Ngai and San Diu
« on: February 14, 2018, 02:20:49 AM »
The Sán Dìu (also known as San Deo, Trai, Trai Dat and Man Quan Coc; Chinese: 山由族; pinyin: Shān yóu zú; Jyutping: saan1 jau4 zuk6; Cantonese Yale: Sanyau Juk; Chữ nôm: 𠊛山由; Vietnamese alphabet: Người Sán Dìu) is a Yao ethnic group in northern Vietnam who speak Yue Chinese (Cantonese), a Chinese language. Although the Vietnamese government classifies San Diu as an independent group, San Diu people are originally a part of Chinese people in Vietnam. They are believed to have migrated from Guangdong, China around 1600.

The group's estimated population as of 2000 was 117,500; a 2009 estimate put the number at 146,821.[1] They speak a variant of Cantonese, and it is suggested that some still speak Iu Mien.[citation needed] The major religions are Mahayana Buddhism and Taoism, with elements of animism and veneration of the dead. About 400 are adherents of the Catholic Church; a few are evangelical Protestants. This ethnic group is mainly concentrated in Quảng Ninh Province.





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The Ngái (Vietnamese: Người Ngái) are a Hakka people in Vietnam and other nearby countries of mainland Southeast Asia. They were originally from China. The Ngái people speak Hakka but are classified separately from the Hoa or urban ethnic "Overseas Chinese" by the Vietnamese government. According to official data, the Ngái population was 4841 in 1999[1] but down only 1035 in 2009.[2]

I can´t find any video of Ngai people in Vietnam.  Since their number is so small they are most likely considered extinct in Vietnam or intermixed to oblivion.  Needless to say, the "Chinese" in Vietnam are not really Han Chinese at all but represent all the subjugated ethnic minorities of China who came to Vietnam.  Officially, they are considered Chinese in China and are called Chinese by Aseans but they know they are not Han Chinese and Han Chinese know they are not Han Chinese.  As a Vietnamese, I do not consider them Chinese but one of the numerous stateless sinicized aboriginals (sinabs).

The only Ngai I can find is this dude who now lives in Canada





Offline 222

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Re: The Forgotten Hoa Chinese of Vietnam: Ngai and San Diu
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2018, 02:03:54 AM »
Calm down, dude~!  :p
You seem very emotional about how "Southern Chinese" now are the "fake Han"... :)

The "Ngai", I believe this term came originated from what they call themselves, "Ngai".

"Ngai" means "I", "Me" in HakKa language.

Interesting that most of "Sino-Tibeto-Myanmar" speakers call themselves in very close and related word, from the common root in "Proto-Sino-Tibetan" vocabulary: *Nga; ŋa

Burmese: ငါ "Nga"
Qiang-Tangut: ŋa
(*Tangut is an extinct language in QingHai / Kokonur, North-Western China, between Tibet and Inner Mongolia) :

Tibetan, Bhutanese: Nga



***

How do the Viet Namese call themselves (I, Me)? :)

The Japanese call themselves in various term, one of the formal word is わたし "Watashi", "Watakhushi", or "Washi".

But also often 我が "Waga" or "Ga" in Sino-Japanese word.

The Koreans is a bit similar with Sino-Tibetan owrd, 나는 "Naneun" or also can be "Na".
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Offline gaden

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Re: The Forgotten Hoa Chinese of Vietnam: Ngai and San Diu
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2018, 12:32:42 PM »
Their dress looks like the ao tu than. 




Sán Dìu people


Offline 222

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Re: The Forgotten Hoa Chinese of Vietnam: Ngai and San Diu
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 12:28:53 PM »
Their dress looks like the ao tu than. 




Sán Dìu people



Who is Ao Tu Than?
A person or an ethnic group?

The SanDiu are said to be a Yao / Mienh tribe who are the Cantoness-Yue speaker from South China - North VietNam borders.

Similar to San Diu above, the HakKa are rumoured to be a "Sinicized She (Yao) people".



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Offline gaden

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Re: The Forgotten Hoa Chinese of Vietnam: Ngai and San Diu
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2018, 09:55:58 PM »
Who is Ao Tu Than?
A person or an ethnic group?

The SanDiu are said to be a Yao / Mienh tribe who are the Cantoness-Yue speaker from South China - North VietNam borders.

Similar to San Diu above, the HakKa are rumoured to be a "Sinicized She (Yao) people".


Ao tu than is a four flap dress of the Kinh people.


stacey

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Re: The Forgotten Hoa Chinese of Vietnam: Ngai and San Diu
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 12:06:48 AM »
Hi Ryan,

I'm from Sacramento, California and there are a decent number of Ngai speaking people there (myself included). Several of my friends that I went to school with (elementary/middle/high) speaks Ngai also. I've often wondered what dialect we speak and have asked my Chinese teachers and no one knows. So glad I finally have "closure."

Where in Canada are you and is there a large Ngai population there? I know there are Ngai speaking people scattered throughout California as I've traveled with my mom to San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, etc. and we will visit relatives and/or family friends (aka people my mom knew back in Vietnam) who spoke our same dialect. I also traveled with her to Montreal once to visit a relative or family friend that spoke Ngai too.

Where in China was your family originally from? I've tried asking my mom, but she's illiterate and the words she uses I can't decipher where she's referring to.

BTW, I have to say I'm super impressed you're able to speak all those Chinese dialects AND Vietnamese.

Offline gaden

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Re: The Forgotten Hoa Chinese of Vietnam: Ngai and San Diu
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2018, 08:11:24 PM »
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