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Author Topic: We were Chinese before we became Vietnamese  (Read 1900 times)

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Offline NT

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Re: We were Chinese before we became Vietnamese
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2017, 06:52:44 PM »
Even if I am wrong as you said, the fact that they don't speak Chinese because they are partially Chinese(1/4. 1/8),  yet they are still digging and finding out  about their ancestors and can even trace them back to a specific province of China. That tell me their Chinese identity is very strong. They identify as Thai...but their action say they're Thai Chinese.

Sir, I have nothing against your claims--and my like or dislikes for Chinese will not blind me or stop me from coming to an impartial or subjective conclusion.

What's preventing me from agreeing with your conclusion is simply because it doesn't make any god damn sense. You never see Qu talking about his great great x100 grandfather from China or which province he came from or which Chinese dialect  he spoke.

Offline 大越

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Re: We were Chinese before we became Vietnamese
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2017, 07:59:43 PM »
That’s exactly it. Viet connection with China is 800 years old and long forgotten, but it is pervasive and that shows up in both our genes and our culture.

Viets have collective amnesia. As I’ve said we can’t even remember past 100 years let alone 800 years. The genetic paper was purely that, a look at when the DNA transition occurred. I am only revealing what the study authors are saying. Don’t shoot the messenger

Look at the title of this thread. It says we (Dai Viets) are no longer Chinese.
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Offline 大越

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Re: We were Chinese before we became Vietnamese
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2017, 08:53:33 PM »
And by the way, none of the Chinese dialects spoken today even existed 800 years ago. Our northern relatives were from all over and the result is a mix that has already been evenly blended a long time ago.

The Chinese dialect that Vietnamese is closest to is Annamese Middle Chinese.

More about it here:

https://chl-old.anu.edu.au/publications/csds/csds2010/03-1_Phan_2010.pdf



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Offline NT

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Re: We were Chinese before we became Vietnamese
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2017, 07:50:49 PM »
But then why stop there? It is good as "were homo erectus before we were Vietnamese. "  Or based on the "Out of Africa theory," I guess were were African before we were Vietnamese.


Point is, it doesn't change anything. Why waste time arguing about stuff you never experienced. There is no amnesia, those memories never existed for you and I. I was never a Chinese or an African.


Offline 大越

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Re: We were Chinese before we became Vietnamese
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2017, 09:55:23 PM »
I can’t man, “Viet Nam” are Chinese-derived words. Our personal names are also Chinese-derived names. At least half of our vocabulary are Chinese-derived words. Tet and Trung Thu are Chinese-derived festivals. The ancestral hall in a Ha Nam village that my family have been maintaining and worshiping for a millennia are Chinese derived traditions. Our ao dai is Chinese-derived. My habit of using soy sauce for seasoning and chopsticks for eating is Chinese-derived. Thank god I also use fish sauce.

But even my DNA tests keep reminding me not to stray too far

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Offline NT

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Re: We were Chinese before we became Vietnamese
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2017, 10:32:52 PM »

what you're saying is true. You cannot talk about Vietnamese without ancient Chinese. There were Vietnamese Kings that had native and ancient Chinese linage.
But that's what make a Vietnamese person Vietnamese. It is a collective identity of the southern people or those that migrated and settled in the South, intermixing with local people in the Red-River Delta and call themselves Vietnamese.

But Vietnamese were not Chinese. That's on-sided, in relaity Vietnamese are a mix of peoples/tribes, and southward expansion also added more to this complexity.

You won't accept this, that's why people like you are always confused, hence constant bickering amongst yourself about phenotypes, genetic, and identity. Because you have ideals and try to make other see it your ways.

Offline literallyChina

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Re: We were Chinese before we became Vietnamese
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2017, 03:56:12 AM »
Southern Han or Northern Han?

Offline 大越

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Re: We were Chinese before we became Vietnamese
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2017, 06:15:00 AM »
Southern Han or Northern Han?

From the paper:

“The D-statistic, built as D(Y, KHV; CHS, OUTGROUP), indicates that the Chinese (represented by CHS) have an unquestionable contribution to KHV”


CHS are Han samples from Hunan and Fujian province from 1000 Genomes project.

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Offline 222

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Re: We were Chinese before we became Vietnamese
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2018, 06:28:33 AM »
I think you can't 'move on' with the "Nam Viet" 204BCE in present day GuangXi Zhuang Autonomous Region.

But the Zhuang (Thai: จ้วง) are NOW Chinese.

The Zhuang (Thai: จ้วง) are the largest non-Han group in South China.

Would you Vietnamese help the Zhuang (Thai: จ้วง) to reclaim their lands back from China? -
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Offline gaden

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Re: We were Chinese before we became Vietnamese
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2018, 10:08:44 PM »
I think you can't 'move on' with the "Nam Viet" 204BCE in present day GuangXi Zhuang Autonomous Region.

But the Zhuang (Thai: จ้วง) are NOW Chinese.

The Zhuang (Thai: จ้วง) are the largest non-Han group in South China.

Would you Vietnamese help the Zhuang (Thai: จ้วง) to reclaim their lands back from China? -


Vietnamese are small headed so they are not able to look much further ahead.  They would rather harass them instead of helping them revolt from China.

Back in the 11th century when the Nùng guy Nong Zhigao (Nùng Trí Cao) revolted against the Song to form their own kingdom no doubt having inspiration from Le Loi a century earlier.  The Vietnamese would rather oppressed them than help them gain land.  If the Vietnamese would join them,  Vietnam would probable encompass Southern China by now.

 
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