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Author Topic: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times  (Read 164 times)

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Online ngjm95

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McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« on: January 12, 2018, 04:09:25 AM »
Robert S. McNamara, once a champion of the escalation of the Vietnam War, says in a memoir to be published in the coming week that he has now concluded that the United States "could and should have withdrawn from South Vietnam" in late 1963 after the assassination of President Ngo Dinh Diem or a year or so later.

In November 1963, 78 Americans had died in the war in Vietnam. In late 1964, the total stood at 225. By the war's end in 1975, it had passed 58,000.

Mr. McNamara served as Secretary of Defense from 1961 to 1968 and pushed so hard for deeper American military involvement in 1964 and 1965 that the conflict in Southeast Asia became known as "McNamara's War." Later, he broke with President Lyndon B. Johnson and urged that a diplomatic solution be sought. Convinced that the war was unwinnable, he left the Pentagon in 1968 to head the World Bank. ...

Asked in the interview today whether the same mistakes could be repeated now, he responded, "Absolutely, not only can be but are being repeated." American difficulties in Bosnia and Somalia, he said, involved some similar errors.

 In his book, Mr. McNamara says the ultimate cause of failure in Asia lay with the South Vietnamese. Echoing what both Presidents John F. Kennedy and Johnson said, Mr. McNamara states that it was the Asians' war, ultimately, to win or lose.

After President Diem's death, a series of coups convinced American officials that the South Vietnamese were incapable of putting together a stable government.

By the mid-1960's, Mr. McNamara says, it was clear that "political stability did not exist and was unlikely ever to be achieved" and "the South Vietnamese, even with our training assistance and logistical support, were incapable of defending themselves."

More:http://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/09/world/mcnamara-recalls-and-regrets-vietnam.html

Offline Qu Đơn

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Re: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 05:04:12 AM »
It´s quite clear you work for the Vietnamese Communist Party in Hanoi.  You have no personality just propaganda.  This article is from 1995, nice try.

Online ngjm95

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Re: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 07:47:39 AM »
Hé,hé. It's history that why I didn't post it in the Military section.
U pretend it to be be old  but now and then one can read comparaison between Communist VN with Diem or Thieu era. So why not!
And there was no comment from me,just Mc Namara ones!

Offline lalapaluza

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Re: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 08:25:54 AM »
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/01/it_could_have_turned_out_different_in_vietnam.html

President Nixon did not think so.  He wrote about it in No More Vietnams, a book that gets better with age.  The point is that we choose to win wars or lose them, the latter of which we did in Vietnam.  To win would not have required a single soldier – just a few B-52s to remind the North that we meant to enforce the ceasefire.  We should remember that North Vietnam was devastated in 1973.

President Nixon did not think so.  He wrote about it in No More Vietnams, a book that gets better with age.  The point is that we choose to win wars or lose them, the latter of which we did in Vietnam.  To win would not have required a single soldier – just a few B-52s to remind the North that we meant to enforce the ceasefire.  We should remember that North Vietnam was devastated in 1973.

The tragedy of Vietnam is that the USSR could not believe that we let South Vietnam collapse in 1975, as Stephen J. Morris wrote on the 30th anniversary of the disintegration of Saigon:


If the United States had provided that level of support in 1975, when South Vietnam collapsed in the face of another North Vietnamese offensive, the outcome might have been at least the same as in 1972.

But intense lobbying of Congress by the antiwar movement, especially in the context of the Watergate scandal, helped to drive cutbacks of American aid in 1974.

Combined with the impact of the world oil crisis and inflation of 1973-74, the results were devastating for the south.

As the triumphant North Vietnamese commander, Gen. Van Tien Dung, wrote later, President Nguyen Van Thieu of South Vietnam was forced to fight "a poor man's war."

Even Hanoi's main patron, the Soviet Union, was convinced that a North Vietnamese military victory was highly unlikely.

Evidence from Soviet Communist Party archives suggests that, until 1974, Soviet military intelligence analysts and diplomats never believed that the North Vietnamese would be victorious on the battlefield. Only political and diplomatic efforts could succeed.

Moscow thought that the South Vietnamese government was strong enough to defend itself with a continuation of American logistical support.

The former Soviet chargé d'affaires in Hanoi during the 1970's told me in Moscow in late 1993 that if one looked at the balance of forces, one could not predict that the South would be defeated.

Until 1975, Moscow was not only impressed by American military power and political will, it also clearly had no desire to go to war with the United States over Vietnam.




Offline Qu Đơn

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Re: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 08:27:34 AM »
Your horrendous command of both written English and written French show me that you´re nothing more than just a paid mouthpiece of the commies.  Using google translate does not do anything to address how poorly the Hanoi School of Propaganda has prepared its graduates for this low paid career.  Must be great oppressing your own people, you sack of shiet.

Hé,hé. It's history that why I didn't post it in the Military section.
U pretend it to be be old  but now and then one can read comparaison between Communist VN with Diem or Thieu era. So why not!
And there was no comment from me,just Mc Namara ones!

Offline lalapaluza

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Re: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 08:30:33 AM »
the commie's win if you read this article and many more was from their ruthless determination and the feeble minded lefty movement that was pervasive in the developed west at the time. Not because they were any invincible super war strategists.

all is fair in love and war as they say. if you step back and be humane the enemy wins. Simple.

Offline lalapaluza

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Re: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2018, 08:31:48 AM »
President Nixon did not think so.  He wrote about it in No More Vietnams, a book that gets better with age.  The point is that we choose to win wars or lose them, the latter of which we did in Vietnam.  To win would not have required a single soldier – just a few B-52s to remind the North that we meant to enforce the ceasefire.  We should remember that North Vietnam was devastated in 1973.

The tragedy of Vietnam is that the USSR could not believe that we let South Vietnam collapse in 1975, as Stephen J. Morris wrote on the 30th anniversary of the disintegration of Saigon:


If the United States had provided that level of support in 1975, when South Vietnam collapsed in the face of another North Vietnamese offensive, the outcome might have been at least the same as in 1972.

But intense lobbying of Congress by the antiwar movement, especially in the context of the Watergate scandal, helped to drive cutbacks of American aid in 1974.

Combined with the impact of the world oil crisis and inflation of 1973-74, the results were devastating for the south.

As the triumphant North Vietnamese commander, Gen. Van Tien Dung, wrote later, President Nguyen Van Thieu of South Vietnam was forced to fight "a poor man's war."

Online ngjm95

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Re: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 09:36:44 AM »
Quote
Your horrendous command of both written English and written French show me that you´re nothing more than just a paid mouthpiece of the commies.  U

I never pretend to better U in english . I'm waiting to read  your french.
How about translating your accusations in french?

Looking down to people seems to make U great?  -

At least lalapaluza comes up with some explanations.

Offline 大越

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Re: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 09:52:48 AM »
I actually wouldn’t have mind permanent separation of north and south. There are people residing in the south today who still hates the north so why bother uniting.
I'm a fobulous fob


Offline Qu Đơn

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Re: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 10:27:17 AM »
you would be in the North?

I actually wouldn’t have mind permanent separation of north and south. There are people residing in the south today who still hates the north so why bother uniting.

Offline 大越

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Re: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2018, 10:29:32 AM »
you would be in the North?


Who knows. It’s possibe I would not have even been born.
I'm a fobulous fob


Offline Qu Đơn

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Re: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 09:04:35 AM »
I bet you would work for the 50 dong army.

Online ngjm95

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Re: McNamara Recalls, and Regrets, Vietnam_The New Yok Times
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2018, 10:57:04 PM »
Quote
To win would not have required a single soldier – just a few B-52s to remind the North that we meant to enforce the ceasefire.  We should remember that North Vietnam was devastated in 1973.

At which cost?US would then create a vacuum in North Vietnam. Be sure that China would then invade North Vietnam. The North  was in the eyes of Mao a buffer zone against invasions like North Korea.
You may then draw soviet troops to counter the B_52 strikes. Then  the chances to start WW3 would be very high. I'm not sure that the Congress and the Senate would have agreed
 
The use of B_52s and naval cannons took an heavy toll to the population  of Danang and its neighborhoods
Like you said , the US Air Force and the Navy claimed they won but not the ARVN. So much for Nixon 's Vietnamization!

http://www.afsa.org/foreign-policy-and-complexities-corruption-case-south-vietnam

 
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