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Author Topic: This Chinese Claims "Kinh" are actually rebellious "Han"  (Read 2296 times)

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Offline Rude Boy

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Re: This Chinese Claims "Kinh" are actually rebellious "Han"
« Reply #80 on: May 13, 2019, 05:57:33 PM »
Oh god, B denoted in the pie chart from Kinh is mostly B4 they talked about, not B5 + B4 found high frequencies among Thai/Tai/Cham. There are B5 among Vietnamese, those found low frequencies.

Post me the link of Cham they studied, let me see what they study. Judging from pie chart I can't tell much of the genetic of Cham but I certain B4 Vietnamese carry does not come from Cham.

Ok now i have a clear understanding of what halopgroup B in the paper you cited is. Hmong's most frequent B subhaplogroup is B4 and so the B they refer to in the paper that you cited is mostly B4 , otherwise they would not have coloured B haplopgroup all blue in the pie charts.

Here is the paper. It is mostly about genetic makeup of Cham people
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/224959093_Patrilineal_Perspective_on_the_Austronesian_Diffusion_in_Mainland_Southeast_Asia

I'm still interested in other sub-haplogroup like B5 though. I believe B5 does have some contribution in Southern Vietnamese (not Central Vietnamese) because there are few Viets who cluster with Khmer in an autosomal study of Vietnamese in Saigon. The paper you cited gives people details about the distribution of only 3 haplogroups: M7, B4, F1 in Vietnamese population. 

So final conclusion:

more M7 = more Vietic (Tho, Chut)
more F1 = more Tai (Tay, Dai)
more B4 = more Hmong (Miao)

Offline AnNamMit

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Re: This Chinese Claims "Kinh" are actually rebellious "Han"
« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2019, 07:47:15 PM »
I read the article you posted. Basically, what it said is Cham's mtDNA is just like other SEA ethnic groups with the composition of M7,B,F,R9. Almost all SEA ethnic groups have those haplogroups predominant.

Cham maternal lineage isn't much different from Vietnamese. The difference is the paternal lineage (Y-DNA) while Cham has South Asian, Vietnamese has genetic from people came from which is now China.

In order to understand, the wholely different you need to understand the other half of the story, the Y-DNA.

The Vietnamese Y-DNA as stated in the paper has O-M7 which found high frequency than Cham. The Kinh Vietnamese Y-DNA is also admixture and different in Northern, Central and Southern. If you want to know which group carry high frequency O-M7 looks for Wiki link below (wiki is not always accurate, make sure verify the wiki references)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_O-M122

Quotes from the article
Quote
Male South Asians contributeto the genetic makeup of Chams, but not South Asian females.

Quote
the origin of the Chams is mainly a result of admixture betweenthe Austronesian immigrants from ISEA with the indigenouspopulations (most likely, Mon-Khmers) in MSEA

The conclusion, SEA was populated by indigenous aboriginal natives then South Asian, Tai, Hmong, and other ethnics in China came after. The different among Thai, Viet, Han, Cham is the Y-DNA while mtDNA are similar with M7, B, R9, F predominant.

Offline Rude Boy

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Re: This Chinese Claims "Kinh" are actually rebellious "Han"
« Reply #82 on: May 17, 2019, 01:57:57 AM »
You are funny if Saigon Vietnamese are definitely not representative of Southern Viet and Hue / Da Nang Vietnamese may not represent Central Vietnamese then which place should represent them? The Hanoi? Do you have any idea why the cities are picked for a genetic test and not elsewhere? Because of the big diversity where many ethnic groups live to represent the people of the region. The city also a place where the elite group lives. You can't just go to Tra Vinh and pick samples DNA there because of the concentration of single ethnic Khmer, would be incorrect to use the sample of Khmer to represent the region, you get the idea though?
So would you think that Bangkok Thais represent average Thais in Central Thailand? City has great diversity but its also where Sinitic admixture is the most prevalent. (Brown = sinid)

Like in Malaysia you have many more Chinese living in cities like Kualar Lumpur than in the rural areas dominated by native Malays. Southern Vietnam has greater diversity than what that pie chart said about Saigon Vietnamese mtDNA. Heck even Northern Vietnam has Mon-Khmer looking folks in the Northwest but they are largely left out in any genetic study of Vietnamese people.

Offline Rude Boy

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Re: This Chinese Claims "Kinh" are actually rebellious "Han"
« Reply #83 on: May 17, 2019, 02:54:16 PM »
Worse still would be if everyone just got slaughtered and were just replaced wholesale.  Obviously wars of these kind don't happen anymore so it can only be hypothesized at what really happened.
Population doesn't get replaced wholesale, at worst their number only get reduced. When a group loses a war to another, they either stay and mix or they migrate and mix. Or both.

Offline Rude Boy

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Re: This Chinese Claims "Kinh" are actually rebellious "Han"
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2019, 09:15:33 PM »
Also looks at this autosomal map


And look at this geography map

Guangdong, Guangxi, Hainan are next to each other but why is there a great genetic divergence within Guangdong, between Guangdong and other southernmost Chinese provinces like Guangxi, Hainan?

Also a large portion of Lingnan population are distinct from the rest of China. Wonder why...

 
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