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Author Topic: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?  (Read 408 times)

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Offline Gāokējì

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This complicates a variety of things.  First of all it would mean that the Vietnamese Kinh/Dai are really in spirit the filthy Chinese and Khmer that they have despised for so long, not to mention the Mongolians which have placed some of their influences onto China which the Vietnamese Kinh/Dai have deterred from ever getting into Vietnam.  And I say this because the founding of a nation ends up being a spiritual quest to preserve what had been given to them by rights, by forefathers, be it land, people, culture, language, artifacts, etc.  And this would be at odds with the vast majority of people living in the nation if they don't identify with the founding and they might choose to go their own way.  It's actually very political if you get into it which is why I prefer not to go that route.  I'd rather us Vietnamese Kinh/Dai have forefathers which came from the Hung kings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BD_dynasty#Founding
Quote
The founder of the Lý, Lý Thái Tổ (Lý Công Uẩn) 李公蘊 has been said to have had origins from Fujian province somewhere in his paternal bloodline,[2][3][4][5][6] while little is known about his maternal side except for the fact that his mother was a woman named Phạm Thị. Very few direct details about his parents are known,[7] however, the ethnic Chinese background of Lý Công Uẩn, at least on his paternal side, was accepted by Vietnamese historian Trần Quốc Vượng.[8]

The Lý dynasty was started by Lý Công Uẩn, a former temple orphan who had risen to commander of the palace guard, succeeded Lê Long Đĩnh of the Early Lê dynasty in 1009, thereby founding the Lý dynasty. He took the reign name Lý Thái Tổ. The early Lý emperors established a prosperous state with a stable monarchy at the head of a centralized administration. The name of the country was changed to Đại Việt in 1054 by Emperor Lý Thánh Tông.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tr%E1%BA%A7n_dynasty#Origin_and_foundation
Quote
The ancestors of the Trần clan originated from the province of Fujian before they migrated under Trần Kính (陳京, Chén Jīng) to Đại Việt, where their mixed-blooded descendants established the Trần dynasty which ruled Đại Việt. They were mixed-blooded due to many intermarriages between the Trần and several royal members of the Lý dynasty alongside members of their royal court. This was the case of Trần Lý[11][12] and Trần Thừa, the latter whose son Trần Thái Tông would later become the first emperor of the Trần dynasty.[13] Their[specify] descendants established the Tran dynasty, which ruled Vietnam (Dai Viet). Some of the mixed-blooded descendants and certain members of the clan could still speak Chinese, as when a Yuan dynasty envoy met with the Chinese-speaking Tran Prince Trần Quốc Tuấn in 1282.[1][2][3][14][15][16][17][18][19] The first of the Trần clan to live in Đại Việt was Trần Kinh, who settled in Tức Mặc village (now Mỹ Lộc, Nam Định) who lived by fishing.[20][21] After three generations in Đại Việt, the Trần clan became a rich and powerful family under Trần Lý, who was Trần Kinh's grandson.[22]

During the troubled time under the reign of Lý Cao Tông, the Crown Prince Lý Sảm sought refuge in the family of Trần Lý and decided to marry his beautiful daughter Trần Thị Dung in 1209.[23] Afterward, it was the Trần clan who helped Lý Cao Tông and Lý Sảm restore the throne in Thăng Long. As a result, the Emperor appointed several members of the Trần clan to high positions in the royal court, such as Tô Trung Từ, who was an uncle of Trần Thị Dung, and Trần Tự Khánh and Trần Thừa, who were Trần Lý's sons.[23] In 1211 the Crown Prince Lý Sảm was enthroned as Lý Huệ Tông after the death of Lý Cao Tông. By that time the Trần clan's position began to rise in the royal court.[24][25]

Having been mentally ill for a long time, the Emperor Lý Huệ Tông ultimately decided to cede the throne of the Lý dynasty to crown princess Lý Chiêu Hoàng in October of the lunar calendar, 1224.[26] Ascending the throne at the age of only six, Lý Chiêu Hoàng ruled under the total influence of the commander of the royal guard, Trần Thủ Độ. Even the Empress Regnant's servants were chosen by Trần Thủ Độ; one of them was his 7-year-old nephew Trần Cảnh.[27] When Trần Cảnh informed Trần Thủ Độ that the Empress Regnant seemed to have affection towards him, the leader of the Trần clan immediately decided to take this chance to carry out his plot to overthrow the Lý dynasty and establish a new dynasty ruled by his own clan. First Trần Thủ Độ moved the whole Trần clan to the royal palace and arranged a secret marriage between Lý Chiêu Hoàng and Trần Cảnh there, without the appearance of any mandarin or member of the Lý royal family. After that, he announced the fait accompli to the royal court and made Lý Chiêu Hoàng cede the throne to her new husband on the grounds that she was incapable of holding office. Thus Trần Cảnh was chosen as her successor. As a result, the 216-year reign of the Lý dynasty was ended, and the new Trần dynasty was created on the first day of the twelfth lunar month (Gregorian: December 31) 1225.[28][29]

O M G

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2019, 06:48:55 AM »
Had I not tell you many times, that Vietnamese are the real Chinese?

When China was in turmoil, there are two types of Chinese emerged. The cowards that kow tow to serve the barbarian federation. And the rebellious Chinese that fled south because they refused to serve the barbarians and assimilated into Vietnamese society. These sino-viet class defended their new homeland.

Your ancestors were of the former, mine were the latter.  The Hoa Chinese that later came as refugees were TrueKingethnic's ancestors. They were given clan name Nguyen and settled in Saigon. They were mostly merchant's and backstabbers. .

Offline Gāokējì

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2019, 06:51:13 AM »
Had I not tell you many times, that Vietnamese are the real Chinese?

When China was in turmoil, there are two types of Chinese emerged. The cowards that kow tow to serve the barbarian federation. And the rebellious Chinese that fled south because they refused to serve the barbarians and assimilated into Vietnamese society. These sino-viet class defended their new homeland.

Your ancestors were of the former, mine were the latter.  The Hoa Chinese that later came as refugees were TrueKingethnic's ancestors. They were given clan name Nguyen and settled in Saigon. They were mostly merchant's and backstabbers. .

Basically speaking that means that Vietnamese King/Dai are descended from the Chinese and the Khmer that they despise not to mention the Mongols that they came to preempt in their influence over them.

O m G

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2019, 07:02:19 AM »
Basically speaking that means that Vietnamese King/Dai are descended from the Chinese and the Khmer that they despise not to mention the Mongols that they came to preempt in their influence over them.

Did I not say they assimilated themselves into Viet Society? And that their descendants were Sino-Viet? How can they be Chinese?

If you mix solution A with Solution B,  and assuming they are two different solutions, then you no longer have solution A. But a mixture of both solutions. O M G man, I though you Chinese are smart.

Offline Gāokējì

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2019, 07:10:20 AM »
Did I not say they assimilated themselves into Viet Society? And that their descendants were Sino-Viet? How can they be Chinese?

If you mix solution A with Solution B,  and assuming they are two different solutions, then you no longer have solution A. But a mixture of both solutions. O M G man, I though you Chinese are smart.
I'm Vietnamese so apparently with genotypic IQ smarts don't distribute to me until I've gotten enough dietary iodine which I can't obtain due to my eternal poverty with my Dai ethnic admixture.
 
The efficacy of assimilation would have had to be 100 percent.  That way it would greatly increase the potency of the original Vietnamese King/Dai blood/genetic concentration within the population yielding an even higher rate of southern labor returns.  It would take a totality of 1 million years so under the request of the conquested Dai the Sinitics returned to their homelands once they saw the Yuan collapsed.

Proud Viet

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2019, 10:53:38 AM »
Quote
I have studied every military treatise in order to write my manual entitled "Principles of Military Strategy". If you will make an effort to study it conscientiously, to instruct yourselves in its teachings, and to follow my directions, you will become my true companions-in-arms. On the other hand, if you fail to study it and ignore my advice, you will become my enemies. Why? Because the Mongols are our mortal enemies; we cannot live under the same sky with them.

If you refuse to fight the Mongols in order to wash away the national shame, if you do not train your soldiers to drive out these barbarians, it would be to surrender to them. If that is what you want, your names will be dishonored forever. And when the enemy has finally been defeated, how will you be able to hold your head high between Heaven and Earth?

You are a descendant of slaves and cowards. Your people shamefully served the barbarians and interbreed with them, even though you always outnumbered them.  Your rulers were brutish rapist, murderers, and killers. You are nothing hut sheep for fleecing.

My people, vastly out numbered, impoverish, but never lack wisdom and courage. Our King and Queen earned their immortality in the mind of the people, through display of extreme valors under extreme circumstances.Through the love of country and people. Their characters were tested through adversities and misfortunes.

We are not from the same stock, little man.

You can take all the treacherous Hoa and  cowardly Viets. There are not many, but those are your kind. You belong together.


Offline Gāokējì

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2019, 12:57:55 PM »
You are a descendant of slaves and cowards. Your people shamefully served the barbarians and interbreed with them, even though you always outnumbered them.  Your rulers were brutish rapist, murderers, and killers. You are nothing hut sheep for fleecing.

My people, vastly out numbered, impoverish, but never lack wisdom and courage. Our King and Queen earned their immortality in the mind of the people, through display of extreme valors under extreme circumstances.Through the love of country and people. Their characters were tested through adversities and misfortunes.

We are not from the same stock, little man.

You can take all the treacherous Hoa and  cowardly Viets. There are not many, but those are your kind. You belong together.

The truth is exactly what it is, you can't dance around it.  The only stock which ended up fleeing were the ones that ended up being in Vietnam.  They either couldn't or wouldn't find another home since first of all if they went further south they would have had to encounter Champas and be funneled into an endless spiral of identity self annihilation.  Or the Champas ended up siding with those that fled for a joint effort.  Those southern Song Chinese that stayed and fought to the dying days of Southern Song were weakening the Mongols until they couldn't fight much longer.

Your source even identifies the strategy for which stopped Mongols in their tracks.  It was basically a scorched earth policy.  Your "true China" basically burned itself in order to stay alive, meagerly, the way a concubine might have self inflicted facial wounds in order to appear hideous and resist sexual advances by the king.

Quote
In 1257, 1284, and 1287, the Mongol armies of Kublai Khan invaded Vietnam, sacking the capital at Thang Long (renamed Hanoi in 1831) on each occasion, only to find that the Vietnamese had anticipated their attacks and evacuated the city beforehand. Disease, shortage of supplies, the climate, and the Vietnamese strategy of harassment and scorched earth tactics foiled the first two invasions. [Source: Library of Congress *]

What's this?  I thought you said the enemy was charged head on otherwise head could not be held high between heaven and earth. 1127-1279 were the years that the southern Song fought the Mongols until the last breath of its last able soldier and yet somehow the failed invasion of Vietnam first took place in 1257.  Did hundreds of years of Chinese fighting the Mongols not weaken them enough for you that you couldn't take retake your "glorious" fight northwards?  Vietnamese could have rechallenged the old territory back to where they originated from unless presumably they weren't really from a place like Fujian or were simply cowards that fled to begin.  Even the Yuan dynasty at its height was overthrown by the time of the Ming.

Great Viet

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2019, 01:27:01 PM »
There is no dancing here, everything is clear, blunt, and direct.  We have nothing to hide.

So whenever you see a Vietnamese person, be it Cham admixture, Tai, Khmer, or Chinese. Remind yourself that their ancestors were of Great Viet stocks. Whose peoples have displayed tremendous valor and courage. The identity of their ancestors have been defined by action, deeds, and not words.

How can a Chinese slave, whose ancestors were servants of barbarians, speak of the Viet identity?  Have you no shame?  The Vietnamese identity, is something your wealth, riches, and material procession can never match.

Offline Gāokējì

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2019, 01:42:07 PM »
There is no dancing here, everything is clear, blunt, and direct.  We have nothing to hide.

So whenever you see a Vietnamese person, be it Cham admixture, Tai, Khmer, or Chinese. Remind yourself that their ancestors were of Great Viet stocks. Whose peoples have displayed tremendous valor and courage. The identity of their ancestors have been defined by action, deeds, and not words.

How can a Chinese slave, whose ancestors were servants of barbarians, speak of the Viet identity?  Have you no shame?  The Vietnamese identity, is something your wealth, riches, and material procession can never match.

So quit your fancy wording already the way Vietnamese like to do with their language said to sound like the song of birds.  What's the hard proof that you keep mentioning about?  Did Vietnamese charge head on with valor or did they use a scorched earth policy?

Great Viet

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2019, 01:47:55 PM »
Before battle, you must survey the land, learn its terrains,  and you must secure its supply line. And then strategy and tactic must be employed. Your troops must be adequately equipped and fed. Officers and commanders must establish the chain of command.

If you send your troops into and ambushed, or crossed into unfavorable terrains. As a strategist, you are to blame. If your troops died from exhaustion, diseases,  or hunger. As a strategist, you are responsible. Don't blame the enemy for outwitting and outsmarting you.

You see, this is why you are a descendant of slaves and we're of glorious men.

I must stop talking to you, because you are oozed of stupidity  and shame. You proclaimed yourself as an intelligent beings, but talking to you, is like trying to reason with a child.

Offline Gāokējì

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2019, 01:49:43 PM »
Before battle, you must survey the land, learn its terrains,  and you must secure its supply line. And then strategy and tactic must be employed. Your troops must be adequately equipped and fed. Officers and commanders must establish the chain of command.

If you send your troops into and ambushed, or crossed into unfavorable terrains. As a strategist, you are to blame. If your troops died from exhaustion, diseases,  or hunger. As a strategist, you are responsible. Don't blame the enemy for outwitting and outsmarting you.

You see, this is why you are a descendant of slaves and we're of glorious men.

I must stop talking to you, because you are oozed of stupidity  and shame. You proclaimed yourself as an intelligent beings, but talking to you, is like trying to reason with a child.

You had a home to call from the place you fled, how could you not have known that territory for hundreds of years already.  It wouldn't have been a war of offense but of defense.  Did you neglect to survey your land completely in all that time, seriously?

Talking with me is like trying to reason with a child?  Maybe you'd like to survey this online terrain of vietrealm for hundreds of more years before you decide to flee is more like it.

Great Viet

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2019, 02:09:42 PM »
Don't forget to visit Vietnam. Pay homage to the great general Tran Hung Dao. There are streets, temples, and shrines.named after and made for him. A real Chinese hero. Well, he's not full Chinese, but his partiality will make you Chinese proud.  While at it, you should ask him for forgiveness. You pig tailed, foot bounded, barbarian serving Chinese had brought shame upon his people in China.

Now, I must take a walk and play some Pokemon Go. I don't have a lot of time for shameful and stupid people.

Offline Gāokējì

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2019, 02:11:41 PM »
And hear people retell the ways of their shameful ancestors who fled and conducted scorched earth?

http://factsanddetails.com/southeast-asia/Vietnam/sub5_9a/entry-4288.html#chapter-0

Quote
The Mongol advance against the Annamese was so rapid and devastating that the king fled to an offshore island and in 1258 recognised Mongol authority over his kingdom by sending his son as a hostage to the Khan's court.[Source: “The Mongols” by Stephen Turnbull; “Genghis Khan and the Mongol Conquests” by Stephen Turnbull

Oh man oh man, thanks for the link btw.  It's a great read.  I'll take my time on it, don't you worry, your arguments for the great historical cause of Dai Viet is already flimsy as it is.

Offline Winner

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2019, 08:26:05 PM »
Vietnamese are not Dai. Vietnamese made up 3 major mtDna , biggest is M7 are Austronesian chut, tho, muong. I find them ugly. Second are R9F; those Tai, Chin filth. Third big group are B4 Hmong, She, Yao. Small percent of C/D northern Asian Mongol, Manchu. And some Cham, Khmer.

Masterofdancing

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2019, 10:16:09 PM »
you can't dance around it.
Oh baby, you can dance around everything  -yes

There is no dancing here
That is a crime, I will send a dance teacher for you to save you!  -hugsmile

Offline Gāokējì

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2019, 10:52:00 PM »
Vietnamese are not Dai. Vietnamese made up 3 major mtDna , biggest is M7 are Austronesian chut, tho, muong. I find them ugly. Second are R9F; those Tai, Chin filth. Third big group are B4 Hmong, She, Yao. Small percent of C/D northern Asian Mongol, Manchu. And some Cham, Khmer.

I know you pulled the study you based that off out of your gay music video but hardly anyone looks like that in Vietnam except for those 2 freaks.  Yes they are light skinned but they sure as hell don't look northern Asian Mongol and Manchu.  Not that those ethnic groups matter but still, to be accurate.

Also you've got to be blind if you can't even see this chart for what it's trying to present.



Yes, yes indeed.  We Vietnamese are Kinh/Dai.

truekinhethnic

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2019, 03:06:48 AM »
Did I not say they assimilated themselves into Viet Society? And that their descendants were Sino-Viet? How can they be Chinese?

If you mix solution A with Solution B,  and assuming they are two different solutions, then you no longer have solution A. But a mixture of both solutions. O M G man, I though you Chinese are smart.
they assimilated with us mon khmer true kinh ethnics, don't speak like you tai are mixed with them, you are a slave caste can never rule vn

Exiled

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2019, 03:42:36 AM »
they assimilated with us mon khmer true kinh ethnics, don't speak like you tai are mixed with them, you are a slave caste can never rule vn

Be quiet Hoa boy. Lol The shameful fool, whose predecessors have been casted out to sea.  Not only so, but your backstabbing nature is blatant. If anything, you are in the same cast as the sucky sucky 5 dollar Chinese whore pretending to be Vietnamese.

Offline Gāokējì

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Re: Were the rulers of ancient Vietnamese Kinh/Dai from Fujian province?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2019, 03:50:26 AM »
Be quiet Hoa boy. Lol The shameful fool, whose predecessors have been casted out to sea.  Not only so, but your backstabbing nature is blatant. If anything, you are in the same cast as the sucky sucky 5 dollar Chinese whore pretending to be Vietnamese.

5 Dollar sucky sucky.  "Noo...You will rewemmer me an my cun tree! Foryeeevaaahh!!!"

No.  I can see that even though our history is blah blah, we have a fiery spirit nonetheless.  Us Vietnamese Kinh/Dai are indeed rulers.  We even told the white race to get the fug out.




 
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