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Author Topic: Are there any records of Viet actions to the Philippines? (Known as Luzon)  (Read 166 times)

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Offline Selurong

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I have collected several historical documents about Filipino actions in Mexico, Argentina and America.

Here:

http://vietrealm.com/index.php?topic=36667.msg104474;topicseen#new

Is there any corresponding historical documents of Viets in the Philippines?
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Offline Selurong

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Are there any records of Vietnamese activities in the Philippines?

Im also trying to research some Philippine/Filipino actions in Vietnam.

So far, all I could find are these...

Apparently ancient Filipinos imported raw Jade from Taiwan and exported sculpted Jade to Vietnam.

Lingling-o ear ornaments with lotus-bud projections were used between 300 BC and 100 AD. They were distinct in such a way that it was designed to appeal to southern markets. It reached Palawan, southern Vietnam and the Niah Caves of Sarawak, east Malaysia. Similar lingling-o that has not been tested for origin yet, were also found in Thailand and Cambodia. These were presumably of Philippine manufacture although the jade came from Taiwan; this is evidenced by the fact that the people from southern Vietnam and Filipinos are speakers of Austronesian languages. Both were also part of a huge trade network when Southeast Asia traded with countries surrounding the Mediterranean Sea, India and southern China about 2,000 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_jade_culture





Then the next action of the Philippines in Vietnam was military actions of "Lucoes" mercenaries in Indonchina and Portuguese-Malacca.

Lucoes were hired as soldiers to fight against the Burmese elephant army against Thailand, then were also hired as sailors for Brunei, Aceh and Malacca.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lu%C3%A7%C3%B5es

Then under Spain: which also ruled Portugal and Mexico then, we sided with Cambodians against Thais, before they were turned into a puppet state and the Cambodian king was turned against us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian%E2%80%93Spanish_War

Our next action is in Cochinchina campaign where we as Catholics under Spain, helped Catholic France establish Hanoi as a French colony.

http://www.nigelgooding.co.uk/Spanish/Cochinchina/cochinchina.htm

Mind you there were already tensions for between Spain, France, Philippines, Mexico and etc.

Mexico became independent of Spain (With the help of a Filipino General and some mercenaries) because Napoleon invaded Spain and caused the Spanish Empire to fragment...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isidoro_Montes_de_Oca

Meanwhile, Mexico tried to forment Philippine independence...

ANDRES NOVALES

Novales' father was a captain of the Spanish Army, while his mother was born to a prominent family in the Philippines. He became a cadet at the age of nine and a lieutenant at fourteen. When he heard of an existing war between Spain and France, he sought his senior officer's consent to send him to Madrid. Despite being demoted to a volunteer soldier with no rank after arriving in Spain, he returned to the Philippines with the rank of captain.[2] His zeal for service had not waned, earning him the envy and ire of other military officers – something which Governor-General Juan Antonio Martínez later used against Novales.

Novales' discontent with the way Spanish authorities treated creoles later grew, reaching its climax when peninsulars were shipped to the Philippines to replace creole officers. He found sympathy of many Creoles, including Luis Rodríguez Varela, the Conde Filipino as well as the demoted Latin American officers in the Spanish army. “Officers in the army of the Philippines were almost totally composed of Americans,” observed the Spanish historian José Montero y Vidal. “They received in great disgust the arrival of peninsular officers as reinforcements, partly because they supposed they would be shoved aside in the promotions and partly because of racial antagonisms.” As punishment for this dissent, many military officers and public officials were exiled, including Novales, who was exiled to Mindanao to fight pirates. Undeterred, he secretly returned to Manila.[1]

On the night of June 1, 1823, Novales along with a certain sub-lieutenant Ruiz and other subordinates in the King's Regiment, as well as discontented former Latino officers “americanos”, composed mostly of Mexicans with a sprinkling of creoles and mestizos from the now independent nations of Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, Chile, Argentina and Costa Rica,[3] went out to start a revolt.[2][4] Along with 800 Filipinos in which his sergeants recruited, they seized the Governor-General's Palace, the Manila Cathedral, the city's cabildo (city hall) and other important government buildings in Intramuros.

Failing to find Juan Antonio Martínez, they killed the lieutenant governor and former governor general, Mariano Fernandez de Folgueras. Folgueras was the one that suggested Spain to replace creole officers with peninsulars.[1] The soldiers shouted ¡Viva el Emperador Novales! ( ("Long live the Emperor Novales!"). Surprisingly, the townsfolk followed Novales and his troops as they marched into Manila. They eventually failed to seize Fort Santiago because Andrés' brother Mariano, who commanded the citadel, refused to open its gates. Authorities rushed soldiers to the fort upon learning that it was still holding out against the rebels. Novales himself was caught hiding under the Puerta Real by Spanish soldiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9s_Novales

In the meantime, France decided to invade Mexico...



But then they where repulsed.
The Romance Metropolis of the Far East
"The City of Manila"


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There has to be interactions given close proximity.  However, literacy was not high in Vietnam for much of our history.  And our royals did not consider the Philippines a country it wanted to establish ties with during the Spanish rule era in the Philippines. Vietnam was a mini China then too, with very isolationist tendencies.  However, the missionaries from the Philippines were very active in Hai Phong and Hanoi during the 17th century, with bases in Macau and Manila.  I remember reading Jesuits´account of 16th and 17th century life in Vietnam from a few articles I found on the internet a few years ago.  Most of it recounting the gory execution of priests by Vietnamese royals and pirates since the priests of that period were pretty much blinged out and carried valuable gifts with them.  If they made it past the pirates, some met horrible fates reaching the court.


Offline Selurong

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There has to be interactions given close proximity.  However, literacy was not high in Vietnam for much of our history.  And our royals did not consider the Philippines a country it wanted to establish ties with during the Spanish rule era in the Philippines. Vietnam was a mini China then too, with very isolationist tendencies.  However, the missionaries from the Philippines were very active in Hai Phong and Hanoi during the 17th century, with bases in Macau and Manila.  I remember reading Jesuits´account of 16th and 17th century life in Vietnam from a few articles I found on the internet a few years ago.  Most of it recounting the gory execution of priests by Vietnamese royals and pirates since the priests of that period were pretty much blinged out and carried valuable gifts with them.  If they made it past the pirates, some met horrible fates reaching the court.



I honestly don't believe that there are no records of Vietnamese in the Philippines. Vietnam in the 1600s already had 4 million people and was an expanding empire and ancient civilization with thousands of years of recorded history while the Philippines was an assorted melange of small port kingdoms which was just freshly conquered. I'm sure as heck that there are records in the imperial library or diplomatic corps that, there were Vietnamese activities in the Philippines.

Heck, our kingdoms were wiped out and burned to the ground yet I was still able to salvage precolonial literature of Filipinos maintaining mercenary and commerical outposts in Brunei, Malacca, Timor-Leste, and Burma as well as discover Filipino jade in Vietnam and Champa. As well as discover the existence of the Luzon Jars.

Mind you, Japan which is even MORE isolated than Vietnam had records of mercanaries and pirates razing China to the ground!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiajing_wokou_raids

And being employed in armies from Manila to Malacca.



The lack of circulating litature (That may be hidden somewhere) cannot be chalked to "isolationism" since Vietnam is very dynamic and is in a hell of a interactive theatre of geography vs Japan yet even Japan has records of her forces operating in Southeast Asia.
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Offline Selurong

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There has to be interactions given close proximity.  However, literacy was not high in Vietnam for much of our history.  And our royals did not consider the Philippines a country it wanted to establish ties with during the Spanish rule era in the Philippines. Vietnam was a mini China then too, with very isolationist tendencies.  However, the missionaries from the Philippines were very active in Hai Phong and Hanoi during the 17th century, with bases in Macau and Manila.  I remember reading Jesuits´account of 16th and 17th century life in Vietnam from a few articles I found on the internet a few years ago.  Most of it recounting the gory execution of priests by Vietnamese royals and pirates since the priests of that period were pretty much blinged out and carried valuable gifts with them.  If they made it past the pirates, some met horrible fates reaching the court.



Maybe we had a good causus beli (crucial for Just War Theory) in trying to help the French occupy Cochinchina. Before the Spanish colonized the Lucoes from the kingdoms in Luzon island (Tondo at least being Hindu, while Ma-i being Buddhist and Pangasinan, Daoist, the only exception would be Maynila which was an Islamic vassal state of the Bruneian Sulltanate set to supplant Tondo), would have interest in helping Cambodia which was switching back and forth from Hinduism and Buddhism but the royals claim descent from Brahmi Caste Indians who wed a native Khmer princess, (I suspect the Rajahnate of Cebu in the south in the Visayas, founded by a half Chola Sumatran prince may have assisted too) in helping Hinduized Cambodia fight against Buddhist Thailand (But actually the records say that the "Lucoes" mercenaries where employed by all sides, Buddhist Thais and Burmese as well as Hindu Cambodians; this most likely to divisions among the people of Luzon as well).

However, what was a loose mercenary force employed among all sides in the Burmese-Siamese wars which was focused in Camodia initially, set the stage for the next conflict, in the same Cambodia where after the king of Cambodia asked the King of Luzon for help.


In 1590, King Sattha of Cambodia sent two elephants to the "King of Luzon" through his Portuguese ambassador and requested the Kingdom of Luzon's assistance in their battle against Siam (Morga, 1609).  In the same year, the "lords" of the Kingdom of Luzon were said to have been corresponding with the Taikou-sama of Japan, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, begging for assistance to help liberate Luzon from the Spaniards. Hideyoshi responded by sending a letter to the Spanish governor of Manila, demanding that the Spaniards leave Luzon quietly or else face a full scale invasion that would force them out.  Ill prepared for a Japanese invasion, the Spanish governor of Manila decided to appease Hideyoshi by sending gifts from the Americas, including the two elephants sent by the King of Cambodia (Morga, 1609).


(Tondo which was the hegemon in Luzon islands had then been supplanted by Bruneian controlled Manila, however, she was liberated and incoporated by the Spanish when Mexico born Juan de Salcedo intended to marry Hindu princess Kandarapa when he waged war against the Muslims since the Spanish were fresh in the reconquista against the Emirate of Granada). So the "King of Luzon" was defacto the Spanish (well not really, more like the Mexicans) who married into the Luzon nobility.

Filipino diplomacy is needlessly complex and byzantine.  -worried

Anyway, this is was what caused the Filipino-Spanish intervention in Cambodia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian%E2%80%93Spanish_War

What's even more poignant is that the French (Stupid French people causing trouble everywhere), which simultaneously fragmented the Spanish empire via the Napoleaonic invasions which caused Juntas to form in Latin-America in support of the expelled former Spanish king, but laid the foundations for independent republics to form; and afterwards sent Latino agents to forment revolt in the Philippines, and add to the fact that the French origined Bourbons expelled from France by Napoleon also came to the throne of Spain, also tapped the Lucoes', and then the Filipino-Spanish preceden't in Cambodia to drum up Catholic support for their invasion (Catholic France my arse, Laïcité was the French policy) and since the first French colonies in Vietnam was in Cochinchina which included Cambodia and South Vietnam, I am 100% sure Catholic colonists: from France especially used the Spanish-Filipino "convivencia" of cultures that already had extensions and precedents in Cambodia which Saigon used to be a part of. As to further French conquests of Vietnam, the center of which is Saigon a former Cambodian territory.
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Offline Daisy

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Are there any records of Vietnamese activities in the Philippines?

Im also trying to research some Philippine/Filipino actions in Vietnam.

So far, all I could find are these...

Apparently ancient Filipinos imported raw Jade from Taiwan and exported sculpted Jade to Vietnam.

Lingling-o ear ornaments with lotus-bud projections were used between 300 BC and 100 AD. They were distinct in such a way that it was designed to appeal to southern markets. It reached Palawan, southern Vietnam and the Niah Caves of Sarawak, east Malaysia. Similar lingling-o that has not been tested for origin yet, were also found in Thailand and Cambodia. These were presumably of Philippine manufacture although the jade came from Taiwan; this is evidenced by the fact that the people from southern Vietnam and Filipinos are speakers of Austronesian languages. Both were also part of a huge trade network when Southeast Asia traded with countries surrounding the Mediterranean Sea, India and southern China about 2,000 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_jade_culture





Then the next action of the Philippines in Vietnam was military actions of "Lucoes" mercenaries in Indonchina and Portuguese-Malacca.

Lucoes were hired as soldiers to fight against the Burmese elephant army against Thailand, then were also hired as sailors for Brunei, Aceh and Malacca.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lu%C3%A7%C3%B5es

Then under Spain: which also ruled Portugal and Mexico then, we sided with Cambodians against Thais, before they were turned into a puppet state and the Cambodian king was turned against us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian%E2%80%93Spanish_War

Our next action is in Cochinchina campaign where we as Catholics under Spain, helped Catholic France establish Hanoi as a French colony.

http://www.nigelgooding.co.uk/Spanish/Cochinchina/cochinchina.htm

Mind you there were already tensions for between Spain, France, Philippines, Mexico and etc.

Mexico became independent of Spain (With the help of a Filipino General and some mercenaries) because Napoleon invaded Spain and caused the Spanish Empire to fragment...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isidoro_Montes_de_Oca

Meanwhile, Mexico tried to forment Philippine independence...

ANDRES NOVALES

Novales' father was a captain of the Spanish Army, while his mother was born to a prominent family in the Philippines. He became a cadet at the age of nine and a lieutenant at fourteen. When he heard of an existing war between Spain and France, he sought his senior officer's consent to send him to Madrid. Despite being demoted to a volunteer soldier with no rank after arriving in Spain, he returned to the Philippines with the rank of captain.[2] His zeal for service had not waned, earning him the envy and ire of other military officers – something which Governor-General Juan Antonio Martínez later used against Novales.

Novales' discontent with the way Spanish authorities treated creoles later grew, reaching its climax when peninsulars were shipped to the Philippines to replace creole officers. He found sympathy of many Creoles, including Luis Rodríguez Varela, the Conde Filipino as well as the demoted Latin American officers in the Spanish army. “Officers in the army of the Philippines were almost totally composed of Americans,” observed the Spanish historian José Montero y Vidal. “They received in great disgust the arrival of peninsular officers as reinforcements, partly because they supposed they would be shoved aside in the promotions and partly because of racial antagonisms.” As punishment for this dissent, many military officers and public officials were exiled, including Novales, who was exiled to Mindanao to fight pirates. Undeterred, he secretly returned to Manila.[1]

On the night of June 1, 1823, Novales along with a certain sub-lieutenant Ruiz and other subordinates in the King's Regiment, as well as discontented former Latino officers “americanos”, composed mostly of Mexicans with a sprinkling of creoles and mestizos from the now independent nations of Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, Chile, Argentina and Costa Rica,[3] went out to start a revolt.[2][4] Along with 800 Filipinos in which his sergeants recruited, they seized the Governor-General's Palace, the Manila Cathedral, the city's cabildo (city hall) and other important government buildings in Intramuros.

Failing to find Juan Antonio Martínez, they killed the lieutenant governor and former governor general, Mariano Fernandez de Folgueras. Folgueras was the one that suggested Spain to replace creole officers with peninsulars.[1] The soldiers shouted ¡Viva el Emperador Novales! ( ("Long live the Emperor Novales!"). Surprisingly, the townsfolk followed Novales and his troops as they marched into Manila. They eventually failed to seize Fort Santiago because Andrés' brother Mariano, who commanded the citadel, refused to open its gates. Authorities rushed soldiers to the fort upon learning that it was still holding out against the rebels. Novales himself was caught hiding under the Puerta Real by Spanish soldiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9s_Novales

In the meantime, France decided to invade Mexico...



But then they where repulsed.

WHERE ON EARTH IS LIANGZHU IN THAT YOU NON HAN BARBARIAN

Offline Selurong

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WHERE ON EARTH IS LIANGZHU IN THAT YOU NON HAN BARBARIAN

Lianzghu isn't even physically located in the Philippines you self centered Sinosupremacist, the world doesn't revolve around your ethnic group. Learn to "circulate"; commerce, ideas, peoples and power is most dynamic when it circulates and travels across a system like a current of water, the breath of the wind or the flow of blood, so it means that the most dynamic cultures are the ones that reach out and interact the most, not the ones' that coagulate and clot into a corner.
The Romance Metropolis of the Far East
"The City of Manila"


Offline Daisy

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Lianzghu isn't even physically located in the Philippines you self centered Sinosupremacist, the world doesn't revolve around your ethnic group. Learn to "circulate"; commerce, ideas, peoples and power is most dynamic when it circulates and travels across a system like a current of water, the breath of the wind or the flow of blood, so it means that the most dynamic cultures are the ones that reach out and interact the most, not the ones' that coagulate and clot into a corner.

like this?



or the fug you talking bout mang

 
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