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Dai Viet 1075-1077

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The Lý–Song War
« on: June 24, 2020, 10:02:39 AM »







"The Lý–Song War was a significant war fought between the Lý dynasty of Đại Việt and the Song dynasty of China between 1075 and 1077. The war began in 1075 when the Lý emperor ordered a preemptive invasion of the Song dynasty using more than 100,000 soldiers, where Đại Việt's forces defeated the Song army and razed the city of Yongzhou (modern day Nanning) to the ground after a forty-two day siege. In response, in 1076 the Song led an army of over 300,000 to invade Đại Việt and by 1077 nearly reached Thăng Long, the capital of Đại Việt, before being halted by general Lý Thường Kiệt at the Nhu Nguyệt River in modern Bắc Ninh Province. After a long battle at the river with high casualties on both sides, Lý Thường Kiệt offered peace to the Song, and the Song commander Guo Kui agreed to withdraw his troops, ending the war."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BD%E2%80%93Song_War

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2020, 06:41:02 PM »
I made numerous threads on this period, most notable of the events unfolded during this time is Vietnam´s invasion of China.

gohomekinhs

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2020, 10:06:35 PM »
this all chinese/south han kinh history

The Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period (907–979) was an era of political upheaval and division in 10th-century Imperial China.

Ngô Quyền (吳權) (March 12, 897 – 944) was a warlord and Vietnamese monarch who founded the Ngô dynasty, ruling from 939-944. He defeated the Southern Han kingdom at the Battle of Bạch Đằng River north of modern Haiphong and ended 1,000 years of Chinese domination dating back to 111 BC under the Han dynasty.[1]

annam was the 11th kingdom but no one teach history as so


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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2020, 10:28:51 PM »
This happened in 1075-1077, the country was named Dai Viet.

It was named An Nam in 679–757 , 766–866, and during the French Colonial era.

gohomekinhs

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2020, 10:46:39 PM »
Southern Han (Chinese: 南漢; pinyin: Nán Hàn; 917–971), originally Yue (Chinese: 越), was one of the ten kingdoms that existed during the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period. It was located on China's southern coast, controlling modern Guangdong and Guangxi. The kingdom greatly expanded its capital Xingwang Fu (Chinese: 興王府; pinyin: Xìngwángfǔ, present-day Guangzhou). It attempted but failed to annex the Tang province of Annam

From this time, Ngô Quyền reclaimed Vietnamese independence and was proclaimed as King (Tiền Ngô Vương) of An Nam in 939.

chinese blood ngo quyen turn annam into 11th kingdom, song try to retake former lands but chinese blood ly just a succession of different chinese ruler in chinese domain, there is 10 separate kingdom of chinese want independent rule mean there is nothing special about tonkin want independence

gohomekinhs

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2020, 10:48:32 PM »
^
only difference the others could not beat song like the ly so it the only one stay independent

X

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2020, 10:50:49 PM »
Correction: that was the Chinese's dream.  ;)

Offline CoconutXO

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2020, 11:39:17 PM »
Phùng Hưng actually succeeded in his rebellion under Tang and ruled VN for 11 years ( from 791 to 802 ). There's a temple dedicated to him.



Quote
Phùng Hưng (761–802) was a military leader who briefly reigned over Vietnam during the 8th century. According to Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư (fascicile 6), Phùng Hưng, a native of Đường Lâm (in today's Hà Tây Province), was rich and possessed prodigious physical strength. In 791, Phùng Hưng and his brother, Phùng Hải, led a rebellion against the ruling Tang Dynasty. Taking the advice of Đỗ Anh Hàn, the Phùng brothers laid siege to the headquarters of the Annam Protectorate, which was managed by the corrupt officer, Cao Chính Bình. Facing the crisis, Cao Chính Bình caught an illness and died shortly after. Phùng Hưng then became ruler of the Protectorate. He ruled for 11 years and was succeeded by his son Phùng An. Phùng Hưng was entitled Bố Cái Đại Vương by his son, and was defied by the people. Phùng Hưng is not mentioned in Tang works of history. In Tang Shu (fascicle 13) and Xin Tang Shu (fascicle 7), the rebellion is said to have been led by Đỗ Anh Hàn. As to his posthumous title, which means “Great King” in Chinese, Phùng Hưng's title represented two Viet Han words. The title Bố Cái is equivalent to “Father and Mother” (i.e. as respectable as one’s parents), but they may also represent Vua Cái, “Great King” (i.e. the meaning is expressed in two different languages)

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Ph%C3%B9ng_H%C6%B0ng

Ngô Quyền won big at Bạch Đằng and VN had too many great generals afterward.

gohomekinhs

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2020, 11:48:50 PM »
born ha tay = chinese, idk why you kinhs keep try to push away your chineseness?

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2020, 12:22:51 AM »
10 min (2.8 km) from Hanoi, merging with it in 2008.

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Hà Tây is a former province of Vietnam, in the Red River Delta, now part of Hanoi. On May 29, 2008 the decision was made to subsume the province into the city of Hanoi. The merger took place on August 1, 2008. The name of the province was a name blending of two former provinces, Hà Đông and Sơn Tây.

Chùa Thầy is the famous temple built there in Lý Nhân Tông reign (1072-1127) .












X

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2020, 12:10:58 AM »
born ha tay = chinese, idk why you kinhs keep try to push away your chineseness?

To be Chinese is to surrender. It is to disgrace the unconquerable mind and indominable spirits of our ancestors.

No Vietnamese stooped to such considerations.

sphinx

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2020, 03:23:38 AM »
thientu considers Lê Lợi (1385-1433) to be the first Vietnamese king, and because Nghệ An was his hometown, everything north of it are Chinese territories. However, Nghệ An is 300 km south of Hanoi where the Dong Son culture actually started 3000 years ago. And while it's true that the Lý-Trần ppl all had Fujian ancestries, they were all technically Vietnamese. Lý Thường Kiệt, for example, was born in Thăng Long (now Hanoi).

The RRD region where many Đông Sơn artifacts were found.






X

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2020, 09:34:36 PM »
What is Chinese anyway? Many nations,language, culture, tribes, and peoples forged into one. Through pillage,conquest, brutal assimilation, and continually submission to the centralized rulers of dynasty. China itself was conquered and ruled by various barbarians tribes. Present day China geographic boundary were forged by Yuan, a Mongolian dynasty.To say those those who were born in what is now known as China are Chinese, is inaccurate. China did not exist back then, there were Han, Song, Ming, Yuan, Qing, Tang, etc.. We are not Chibese, because we are none of those things. The Vietnamese nations were built by Trieu, Dinh, Ly, Tran, etc...

To be Chinese, you must be conquered not only in war, but also mind and spirits. Modern day Chinese are a byproduct of conquered peoples. Even the Ming were conquered. The Manchu forced them to wear pigtail hairstyle and women foot bounded. The Cultural revolution in China wiped out all history through book burning and murder of intellectuals. These type of brutality and cultural genocide created the Chinese identity by wiping out historical differences, forging a new identity.

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2020, 11:53:34 PM »
The Chinese state of mind is incapable of logic.  You ask them why they speak different languages if they are of the same ethnicity and they tell you to read the definition of a dialect.  You ask them why they believe that traditional Chinese medicine can cure covid and they politely ask you to go away.  But if you ask them why such low population peoples like the Mongols, Manchus, Portuguese, and Japanese can totally dominated their country, they will tell you that they are victims of war crimes.  Cowardice and hypocrisy are so woven in the Chinese state of mind that the existence of Vietnam as a nation must be the singular reason for Chinese longevity to not exceed 100 years.

What is Chinese anyway? Many nations,language, culture, tribes, and peoples forged into one. Through pillage,conquest, brutal assimilation, and continually submission to the centralized rulers of dynasty. China itself was conquered and ruled by various barbarians tribes. Present day China geographic boundary were forged by Yuan, a Mongolian dynasty.To say those those who were born in what is now known as China are Chinese, is inaccurate. China did not exist back then, there were Han, Song, Ming, Yuan, Qing, Tang, etc.. We are not Chibese, because we are none of those things. The Vietnamese nations were built by Trieu, Dinh, Ly, Tran, etc...

To be Chinese, you must be conquered not only in war, but also mind and spirits. Modern day Chinese are a byproduct of conquered peoples. Even the Ming were conquered. The Manchu forced them to wear pigtail hairstyle and women foot bounded. The Cultural revolution in China wiped out all history through book burning and murder of intellectuals. These type of brutality and cultural genocide created the Chinese identity by wiping out historical differences, forging a new identity.

Offline Guess

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2020, 11:14:49 AM »
10 min (2.8 km) from Hanoi, merging with it in 2008.

Chùa Thầy is the famous temple built there in Lý Nhân Tông reign (1072-1127) .



so beautiful, falling to ruins. they should put aside budget for restoration, highrises lack charm.











gohomekinhs

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2020, 06:06:52 AM »
thientu considers Lê Lợi (1385-1433) to be the first Vietnamese king, and because Nghệ An was his hometown, everything north of it are Chinese territories. However, Nghệ An is 300 km south of Hanoi where the Dong Son culture actually started 3000 years ago. And while it's true that the Lý-Trần ppl all had Fujian ancestries, they were all technically Vietnamese. Lý Thường Kiệt, for example, was born in Thăng Long (now Hanoi).

The RRD region where many Đông Sơn artifacts were found.
where i said anything dong son?


What is Chinese anyway? Many nations,language, culture, tribes, and peoples forged into one. Through pillage,conquest, brutal assimilation, and continually submission to the centralized rulers of dynasty. China itself was conquered and ruled by various barbarians tribes. Present day China geographic boundary were forged by Yuan, a Mongolian dynasty.To say those those who were born in what is now known as China are Chinese, is inaccurate. China did not exist back then, there were Han, Song, Ming, Yuan, Qing, Tang, etc.. We are not Chibese, because we are none of those things. The Vietnamese nations were built by Trieu, Dinh, Ly, Tran, etc...

To be Chinese, you must be conquered not only in war, but also mind and spirits. Modern day Chinese are a byproduct of conquered peoples. Even the Ming were conquered. The Manchu forced them to wear pigtail hairstyle and women foot bounded. The Cultural revolution in China wiped out all history through book burning and murder of intellectuals. These type of brutality and cultural genocide created the Chinese identity by wiping out historical differences, forging a new identity.
what i notice about south han? once they got even sniff of independent they became very self hatred, tw, sg, hk all despise to be associate as chinese, does that sound familiar? do we also agreed there was 10 kingdom tried to set themself free? so put together it mean you kinh are bunch of chinese and your "indomitable" spirit is nothing special, the only diference here compared to other south hans is your kinh have been free from central chinese rule for 1000 years, 600 of which you were enlaved by our v-m made you forget/lost your true root

X

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2020, 08:17:52 PM »
Vietnamese were proud and stood alone. We're not southern Han not Mon Khmer.

Vietnamese were forbidding to learn and speak the Cham and Khmer language. The Souther Han were considered " northerners" and " bandits" and  their customs were also forbidden.

Vietnamese were only forced to adopt Chinese costume and assimilated to Chinese culture after the fall of the Ho dynasty. There were mass murder, pillage, book burning, and kidnapping of talented Vietnamese back to China to serve as slaves. They also sent in Han settlers.

X

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2020, 08:41:29 PM »
The Ming's brutal occupation consequences led to the Lam Son suprising. Yet produced another great Vietnamese hero, Le Loi. The founder of the Le dynasty.

Misfortunes is no misfortunes if you traverse and emerged victorious. So in that regards, Vietnamese people are very fortunate. We produced many great heroes and heroines. Like pressure and frictions that produced precious gems and diamonds.We've tested time and time again.

Sun Tzu said " if soveign and subject are in accord, put a vision between them." Thus the Chinese has tried very hard to create division amongst Vietnamese.. The Chinese used this successfully against the Ho Dynasty under the banner of "Kill Ho, restore Tran." After the Ming defeating the Ho, they started to turn on all Vietnamese. The Tran fought back, but it was too late. If history teaches us anything,  united we stand, divided we fall.

gohomekinhs

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2020, 02:24:22 AM »
pls tell me more about how you not south hans

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Fujian was the origin of the Trần ancestors who migrated to Vietnam under Trần Kinh along with a large amount of other Chinese during the Ly dynasty where they served as officials. Distinctly Chinese last names are found in the Tran and Ly dynasty Imperial exam records.[41] Ethnic Chinese are recorded in Tran and Ly dynasty records of officials.[42] Clothing, food, and language were all Chinese-dominated in Van Don where the Tran had moved to after leaving their home province of Fujian. The Chinese language could still be spoken by the Tran in Vietnam.[43] The oceanside area of Vietnam was colonized by Chinese migrants from Fujian which included the Tran among them located to the capital's southeastern area.[44][45] The Red River Delta was subjected to migration from Fujian including the Tran and Van Don port arose as a result of this interaction.[46] Guangdong and Fujian Chinese moved to the Halong located Van Don coastal port during Ly Anh Tong's rule in order to engage in commerce.[47] The usurpation of the Ly occurred after they married with the Fujianese Tran family, many of whom were fishermen.[48]


 
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In fact, after Zhu Yuanzhang became the first emperor of Ming dynasty, after ending the Yuan dynasty, which was formed by Mongolians who invade China, he praised Vietnamese culture as follow:
Annam has the Tran dynasty

Its culture is not affected by Yuan people

Their clothes is the same as the Zhu rulers

Their rites and music is the same as the Song rulers

He also used the term "domain of manifested civility" (文獻之邦) to describe Vietnam.

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The Ming government in Vietnam, Chinese though it was, enjoyed widespread favor among the people of northern Vietnam

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Some Chinese heroes were deified in Annam after the fall of the Han dynasty in 220. Among them was Shi Xie, who was deified in the sixth century. As one of the officials who ruled northern Annam in the 1st century, he was given the posthumous name Thiên Cảm Gia Ứng Linh Vũ Đại Vương (善感嘉應靈武大王) by an emperor of Vietnam's Trần dynasty, as recorded in the Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư (大越史記全書), and History of King Si (Kỳ Sĩ Vương).

Shi Xie is still honoured in some Vietnamese temples today as "King Si" (Sĩ Vương).[5] The Vietnamese history Việt Điện U Linh Tập (越甸幽靈集; c. 1400) adds significantly to the traditions of the Chinese records with local Vietnamese traditions.[6]


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Since the original version of the Đại Việt sử ký was absorbed in the works of Phan Phu Tiên and Ngô Sĩ Liên, it is difficult to distinguish which part was written by Lê Văn Hưu and which ones were compiled by the others. They only know that Lê Văn Hưu chose the foundation of the Kingdom of Nam Việt (南越) in 207 BC by Triệu Đà as the starting point for the history of Vietnam and finished his work with the reign of Lý Chiêu Hoàng from 1224 to 1225.

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Re: The Lý–Song War
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2020, 12:48:31 PM »
I hope Vietnam becomes rich enough in the future to make a decent movie of Vietnam´s invasion of China.  I would pay good dinero to watch it in 3D IMAX at the premier.

 
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